Kelly Hulyk: [00:00:00] So most colleges that at least I’m familiar with through my clients have some kind of counseling resource on campus. So it might be a counseling center if it’s a big enough school that has like a PhD program in psychology. You might get doctoral students that can provide counseling. For other schools that may not have those resources, they still may have a few counselors on staff that can provide a few sessions of support.

And if you need more ongoing support than a counseling center on campus can provide we’re going to talk about how to access therapists closer to campus.

Jonathan Hughes: Hi everyone and welcome to the MEFA Podcast. My name is Jonathan Hughes. We’ve talked obliquely [00:01:00] about emotion, and usually negative emotions and how they can impact the college process.

But we’ve mostly done so from a parent’s perspective, or talked about how these feelings can lead to poor decision making when it comes to choosing which schools to attend or how you’re going to finance college. But going to college, applying to college, receiving rejection notices or acceptances, moving away from home.

These are, of course, incredibly emotional things, and students can be anxious about them. You just heard from our guest on the show today, who’s going to talk about her experiences counseling students and parents on this very issue. So if you’re a student experiencing college anxiety, or maybe even if you’re just a bit nervous about the road ahead and you want to know what supports that you might have at college, or if you’re a parent, Wanting to know the same things, please take a listen.

Now, I’ll be back [00:02:00] after the show to wrap things up, but for now, let’s go ahead and meet our guest.

Kelly Hulyk: So my name is Kelly Hulyk. I am a licensed mental health counselor in the state of Massachusetts. I’ve been practicing as a therapist for about eight years and I’ve been independently licensed for about four.

I’ve worked with children, teens, and young adults pretty much the whole time. And even before that I was working with college age kids. As an academic coach at Bridgewater State University. And then I did a little bit of time as a weekend dorm parent for a private high school. So I’ve worked with teens and young adults for quite a while.

Jonathan Hughes: And you’re pretty experienced then with. College and college kids then?

Kelly Hulyk: Yeah, so I was in their academic achievement center, which is just a big hub of academic support services. They had tutoring and writing support, math support. I was an academic coach, so I was more of a general skills based [00:03:00] support.

I worked a lot of times with kids who, we had a program called Grade Point Recovery, so kids who were in their first or second semester whose grades were like yellow to red flag ish and we’re thinking they needed a little bit more guidance on how to figure out this college thing. So I definitely worked with kids from a whole bunch of different backgrounds.

And tried to give them a little bit of a confidence boost and get to know themselves well enough to know what study skills worked for them best, how to access different services on campus. And obviously that transitions really well into working with that age group as a therapist as well.

Jonathan Hughes: Yeah. So let’s Talk about how you came to us. A colleague of mine was taking her child to the pediatrician and saw a poster in the pediatrician’s office. And I wonder if you could tell everyone what that poster said.

Kelly Hulyk: Yeah. So the poster was for, it’s actually a couple of years old, but it’s a poster for a group I wanted to run specifically for kids who are heading off to college.

And so it was around [00:04:00] probably 2022 that I came up with that idea. Because we were coming out of the pandemic era, kids had experienced a huge disruption in their educational experience, and I think there was just a little bit more anxiety than perhaps is typical for kids of that age group who were heading to college.

I had a couple of clients on my caseload at that time that were with the decision making process as far as going to college. And then once they made the decision, we’re still very anxious about what does life look like in college? How do I make friends? What do I do if I’m, lonely or having issues with my roommate?

So it seemed like something that needed more specific support. And so I wanted to start the group to address that. And really give kids a place, not just to connect with an adult who can give them support and guidance, but also to connect with other people their age and understand that this is not an unusual thing to [00:05:00] experience.

It’s okay to feel this way. And we’re all going to get through it.

Jonathan Hughes: And so this is based on something that you were observing at the time?

Kelly Hulyk: Yeah.

Jonathan Hughes: And so what were What were some of the things, I think you just said some of them, but what were some of the things that you were hearing from students, and how has it changed?

You mentioned the pandemic, and coming out of the pandemic, anxiety being a little bit higher. We’re five years on, maybe, from the pandemic. What has changed, and what

Kelly Hulyk: So if you think about the kids who are graduating this year, they were probably either finishing middle school or just starting high school at the time the pandemic happened.

And so there’s still they very much remember not being able to see their friends. Having to stay home, getting really comfortable at home for a lot of them. So I think five years ago, or even three or four years ago the anxiety about leaving home was much more global. Everyone felt that [00:06:00] way.

And now we’re seeing kids who still feel that way. They’re still anxious about leaving home. But it’s not reflected in the wider society. So it might even intensify it a little bit because everyone else seems to be doing okay, but I’m feeling very very anxious. And maybe they missed some of those high school experiences where you did get to go away from home because of the pandemic, those long weekend trips to Washington, DC, New York city, the kids sometimes get to do probably were canceled.

So some of those formative experiences are still missing for them. And I think also because they’ve become more, a little bit, home focused, they’ve grown much more attached to their friends. So now the idea of leaving their high school friends is very stressful.

Jonathan Hughes: Do you ever counsel students regarding I don’t know, academic pressure or choices of schools or is this school right for me or, maybe navigating expectations from other people?

Kelly Hulyk: Yeah, so there’s definitely a lot of pressure both [00:07:00] to continue to perform at a really high academic level through the end of high school as well as this hyper awareness of what everyone else is doing. The people who found their perfect school and got in no problem and everything’s falling into place for them.

But what about me? I haven’t really, I didn’t find a school that was perfect for me or the school that I wanted to go to didn’t accept me. So there’s definitely That as well as how do I, if I am going to my reach school or my top tier choice, how am I going to continue my academic success in a pool of people who are at least as good as I am, if not better.

So there’s definitely that academic pressure. Throughout the whole process, just the idea that it has to be right, that it has to be perfect. And I definitely have to work a lot with kids to get them to dial back on that a little bit and accept that nothing will be perfect. You’re going to make the best choice you have.

You’re going to do the best you can and it’s still going to be all okay.

Jonathan Hughes: We see it and we’ll talk about parents too, but we see it a [00:08:00] lot as far as parents are concerned too. And you touched upon it is the comparison, right? I’m over here, but these people are over here. Why is it working out that way?

What would you tell people in that position? What do you tell students in that position?

Kelly Hulyk: So I try to remind everyone that a lot of this process is outside of their control there are a lot of factors that go into deciding what college to go to even apply to different things that colleges are looking for.

Obviously there’s more or less a formula that everybody’s trying to follow, but every year the applicant pool is slightly different. And yeah, maybe that kid got into the school they wanted because their profile was just ever so slightly different from yours and that’s okay. And that because it’s outside of your control, you have to let go of some of your expectations.

And accept that what’s coming to you is what’s best for you and what you need. And that it’s always [00:09:00] possible to course correct. I was just talking to a kid this weekend who didn’t get into her top school. She was really disappointed. But the school in their rejection letter did say, But if you try again next year as a transfer student, you might have a better chance of getting in.

And where she is right now, that sounded like a terrible idea. Like, why would I do that? And I was trying to keep her mind open to if you are a year from now still thinking that this school was your top choice, it is possible to transfer. There’s nothing wrong with transferring, but also be open to the idea that the school you ultimately do pick is going to work out okay for you too.

Jonathan Hughes: Now do you ever follow through with some of these students and continue seeing them after they go to college?

Kelly Hulyk: Yes usually once they go off to college it becomes much less frequent. It’s usually I’m home for break, can I come in for a tune up, and just talk through how their semester went.

What were the bumps in the road? What [00:10:00] did we learn? What are we going to apply next semester? Where can we adjust? And sometimes also the a little bit of culture shock that comes with, especially that first year of college. You’ve been away for a few months. Now you’re home, you’re trying to reintegrate back into your family’s routine.

You’re trying to reconnect with friends who have also been away for a few months and maybe things have changed. The friendship dynamic is a little bit different. So I do, there is definitely some ongoing support that happens for the kids who Do go off to college and we’re using my support beforehand.

They still find it useful after.

Jonathan Hughes: Do you ever talk to students who do choose to transfer or do make a big decision, they get to a college and they’re not particularly happy and maybe they decide it’s not the right college for them. How do they determine whether or not to make a change?

Kelly Hulyk: It really varies by case because it depends on how they did their first semester.

So when I do have kids, I have had kids who [00:11:00] call me in September, October, and they’re like, this was wrong. I can’t be here anymore. This isn’t what I want. And I try to encourage them to stick it out, at least through the first semester, if for no other reason than to get the credit. So that if you do transfer, if you decide to pause your college education and go back later, you at least get the credit for what you did for those three months.

And then we talk about what were the issues? Why was this not a good fit for you? Was it the social aspect? Was it an academic thing? Were you too far from home? And are they things that with another three months on that campus, could they change? Could you try some other things that are available on campus?

Is there an underlying issue like, a mental health issue like anxiety or depression that was okay because you were at home and you had lots of your familiar supports and then once you detached from that for a few months, it got a little dicey and you need. To maybe check in with a therapist [00:12:00] on campus or near campus, look into other resources for your mental health or is it genuinely, I thought I wanted to be a teacher and I’ve been taking teaching courses and I no longer want to do that.

I want to be an architect and I want to transfer because academically another school will serve me better.

Jonathan Hughes: Seeing as though they don’t see you all that often, if they’re going off to college now, and they only see you when they come back, what’s the advice then?

Kelly Hulyk: Most colleges, that at least I’m familiar with through my clients, have some kind of counseling resource on campus.

It might be a counseling center, if it’s a big enough school that has a Ph. D. program in psychology, you might get doctoral students that can provide counseling. For other schools that may not have those resources, they still may have a few counselors on staff that can provide a few sessions of support.

And if you need more ongoing support than a counseling center on campus can provide we’re going to talk about how to access therapists closer to campus. [00:13:00] Or if they’re in Massachusetts and they’re willing to meet with me virtually, I can continue to do that for them depending on where they’re located.

Jonathan Hughes: Now there’s an insurance component to this as well, right?

Kelly Hulyk: Yes. So insurance, that’s a conversation that I recommend parents and kids have before we head off to school. So definitely out of state, your insurances are going to cover different things, cover different people. Even just virtual versus in person can have different coverage depending on your insurance policy.

But sometimes the counseling centers on campus may not need insurance. Again, if they have resources like doctoral students or just the way they’ve been able to set up the funding for it, you can access those services without. Having to pay for them or having to use insurance to get them.

Jonathan Hughes: How can parents, we can start with the insurance or we can start somewhere else, but how can parents support their students [00:14:00] through anxiety?

Whether it’s, when they’re applying to colleges and choosing colleges and, dealing with admissions decisions, whether they’re rejections or wait lists or what have you and then all the way to. Being a student on campus and not being sure if it’s the right thing.

Kelly Hulyk: So I encourage parents pretty much across the board to let their student be the person in the driver’s seat.

What does the kid feel they need? Rather than parents being like, here’s the problem. Here’s the solution. Cause right. College is this period of time where you are learning how to be more independent and how to take care of these things on your own. So trying to avoid forcing their problem solving skills on their kid.

Trying to listen first, ask if advice is wanted or needed, and what parents can do, what actions they can take to be supportive. And [00:15:00] obviously if you’re watching your kid kind of spiral, you’ll adjust that and step in a little bit more readily. As much as possible, take this time at the end of the school year and heading into summer to talk about what do we anticipate are some roadblocks or road bumps, speed bumps that will run into and what are you going to need in those moments?

And can we get any of that set up now? Can we go visit campus over the summer and identify where health services is and identify where all of the various buildings, even if it’s just here’s the dining hall, here’s your main academic building. Here are some of the dorms. And even as far as getting in touch with different offices and saying, Hey, my kid is probably going to need your services.

Once they get on campus, I just wanted to establish this point of contact. Obviously different schools will respond to that differently, but it never hurts to say, Hello, here I am. [00:16:00] What can you offer me for the summer? Even just thinking about, if you get sick on campus, where are you going to go?

Do you want to call mom right away, or is it something that you can figure out on your own?

Jonathan Hughes: This is, this brings up another question now, because there’s a confidentiality aspect to this too, right?

Kelly Hulyk: Yeah.

Jonathan Hughes: How should parents and students navigate that? Is that something that you feel like they should a decision on beforehand as to if parents are going to be notified if there’s an issue.

Kelly Hulyk: I would definitely familiar, familiarize yourselves with what the policies are. So FERPA obviously keeps the academic information private. And that surprises a lot of parents, at least when I was in academic coaching, it was very surprising to a lot of parents that they couldn’t just email us and say, Hey, how’s my student doing in this?

Have you done this? So familiarizing yourself, [00:17:00] what information is available and if there. There’s information that you want to have available.

Jonathan Hughes: What does the student need to do to make sure you have access to it? Yeah, because they can sign something to give the parents access to grade information and whatnot.

Is it the same thing with health or no?

Kelly Hulyk: So health will have similar, but different. So for my practice, I do have a release form for parents of kids and young adults over 18 where the kid can specify what I want you to be able to talk to my parents about. And it could be just things like paying for sessions.

It could go as deep as treatment plans and, progress updates. And that’s really for the kid to decide. Ultimately, so another space where parents need to let the student be in charge, obviously having a conversation about what that looks like, why a parent might want [00:18:00] information if they feel like the kid’s not giving enough information and what Maybe the consequences or the outcomes might be if they don’t have access to that information.

If you are sick and need information from mom, but can’t call her yourself, it’s a good idea to have a release on file. So someone on campus can reach out to parents and say, what’s the deal with this? But some kids also want that. Little bit of reassurance that parents can’t have all the information and that’s okay, too.

Jonathan Hughes: Yeah, now I want to ask you if you’ve ever counseled parents As well as in a not necessarily professionally counsel them, but you know had conversations with them during the admissions process, the application process and the, whole struggle of where a child is going to go to college or where they got admitted to college.

And what has that experience been like?

Kelly Hulyk: So that [00:19:00] process, it does really vary by the family circumstances and what the parents expectations for their kid are and what the parents attitudes towards college are. Because obviously some families, college is brand new and really exciting and we’re, we’re glad that our kid has this opportunity.

And some families are very much more strict about where their kid can apply or how much money we’re willing to spend. So throughout the application and admission process, Generally, I find parents can be a little overbearing because they’re, it is, it’s a tight deadline. It’s a process that can feel both extremely long and drawn out and also super fast and scramblish and panicky.

And obviously parents have their own stress about it because college can be so expensive, not knowing what the financial aid picture looks like, not knowing what to do with financial aid packages once you get them. [00:20:00] Yeah, trying to help parents contain their own anxieties, too, is definitely part of the process, everyone’s allowed to be worried about this for different reasons and making sure that everybody’s taking care of their own anxiety and that parents can continue to support their kid.

Jonathan Hughes: I’m going to ask you my final question just after this one, but I wanted to ask you this one earlier and just got carried away in the conversation.

But I wonder what your. Educational journey was and basically, when you know you when you knew you wanted to counsel folks and how you went about making that happen.

Kelly Hulyk: So I majored in psychology as an undergrad. I did a psychology Spanish double major, which with kind of always the plan to do some kind of counseling work.

The original thought in my head. 21, 22 is that I would eventually go get my PhD. Once I became an adult, I realized that’s a very expensive prospect that I can, do the same [00:21:00] work with fewer debts hanging over my head. And then I didn’t, I graduated in 2010. So that was in the middle of a recession, the prospect of.

Getting jobs and all of that was very stressful. So I just ended up moving home and working in nonprofits, low income housing for about five years. And over the course of those five years, I realized I still want to help people in a different way, in a more personal and relationship based way.

And so that’s when I decided to go back to school for counseling, and that’s what I’ve been doing ever since, and I don’t regret it at all.

Jonathan Hughes: Great. Now finally then if you were to just have a minute with both students and parents to give them some sort of blanket advice between now, let’s imagine that, students are in as they are now, you’re counseling folks who are receiving their decisions from colleges and whatnot.

What would you Tell both the parents to always [00:22:00] remember and the students to remember as well.

Kelly Hulyk: I think in terms of advice I would give to everybody. is to remember that you can always course correct. As much as this feels like, a lot of our culture makes this feel like almost a do or die situation, like this is it, that’s not the reality of it.

You can go through this whole thing, like we said, and get to the end of your first semester, be like, this isn’t for me, I need something else. And discomfort is necessary for learning and growth. So this is going to be uncomfortable at times. It’s not supposed to be all rainbows and puppies and unicorns.

There are going to be some hard conversations. There are going to be some uncomfortable feelings, whether it’s anxiety, loneliness. doubt [00:23:00] all of it’s kind of part of the package and that’s okay. And it’s not going to last forever for the majority of the kids that I work with. It ends up working out just fine.

Like they do have all those feelings, but they stay where they are. They’re glad they made the decision they did. And they’re doing great.

Jonathan Hughes: And then, finally, for students for whom that, it is becoming more acute, it is, what should they think of and what should they do?

Kelly Hulyk: Reach out always. Talk about this stuff. It’s not something that you need to hide from anybody. You’re not failing, you’re not broken if you’re in a lot of distress. It just means that you need to reach out. And I tell that to all of my clients of all ages, that ultimately these things are not signs that you have to. Keep everything in and hide.

There are signs that you need support from the people around [00:24:00] you. And try not to look at what everybody else is going through and think you know. There’s actually a really high rate of mental health issues on college campuses. So even if it looks like everyone else around you is having a grand old time and they’re living their best lives, I can guarantee you that some of them are struggling.

And there is help. It doesn’t have to be like that. There are lots of ways you can get help, whether it’s from therapists and counselors or even professors or res life staff on campus sometimes have training that can be supportive. Talking to your medical doctors, if you want medication, all of those things are available and they can help.

And it doesn’t mean you’ve done anything wrong.

Jonathan Hughes: All right. Thank you so much. I really that this is great and I appreciate you being here.

Kelly Hulyk: Thank you so much.[00:25:00]

Jonathan Hughes: All right, Kelly. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your expertise with us and your experience. And folks, if you liked what you heard on the show today and you want to know more from us on planning, saving, and paying for college and career readiness, then follow the show and you can do that wherever you find your podcast.

And please remember to rate and review us. It helps us to keep doing what we’re doing and getting this show out in front of folks like you. I’d like to thank Shaun Connolly, our producer, Meredith Clement, Lauren Danz, Lisa Rooney, and AJ Yee for their assistance in hosting the show. Once again, my name is Jonathan Hughes, and this has been the MEFA Podcast.

Thank you.