Rob O’Dwyer: [00:00:00] I think that we all as people want to be and feel useful. From my observation, there’s a lot of jobs that people have, where whatever the mindset is in high school, going to college, how you’re going to measure success in your terms what kind of salary you’re going to get I think this kind of cuts back to why there’s so many jobs, adults here that are over 20 something. I think that people discover that they may not be satisfied. And even the people that might be making excellent salaries, there’s just something missing something. And I think it’s connected to this concept of usefulness.
Jonathan Hughes: Hi everyone. And welcome to the MEFA Podcast my name is Jonathan Hughes and I’m the host of the show. And you just heard our guest on the show, Rob O’Dwyer. He’s the Director of Admissions and Enrollment at the North Bennett Street School in Boston’s North [00:01:00] End. This is more of our continuing efforts to bring you stories highlighting alternatives to the traditional four year college experience.
And this place, North Bennet Street School, is a prime example of that. It’s not just a trade school, it’s known as America’s first trade school. Another feather in our educational cap here in Massachusetts. And Rob is going to tell you all about the school’s history, what courses and trades they offer, how students come to find their way to North Bennett Street, and where they can go to learn more.
Now we were lucky enough to record at that historic school for our interview, and I know you’re really going to enjoy it. So let’s let our guest introduce himself and tell us all about North Bennett Street School and what it has to offer.
Rob O’Dwyer: My name is Rob O’Dwyer. I’m the Director of Admissions here at North Bennet Street School, director of Admissions and Enrollment for the Accredited Career Training Programs. [00:02:00] There are nine of those programs. They are bookbinding, locksmithing, jewelry making carpentry, preservation carpentry, piano technology, advanced piano technology, and violin making and repair.
Jonathan Hughes: Now, as I said, North Bennet Street School is known as America’s first trade school, and Rob was able to give us a look back at its founding.
Rob O’Dwyer: North Bennett Street School was started in 1881 by a woman named Pauline Agassi Shaw. She was just a force. This project, North Bennet Street School, was one of the things that she worked on. Some of the other things that she worked on were she partnered with friends to help to found and fund the first kindergartens in the United States.
When she started North Bennet Street School, it was originally to help people who had recently come to the North End. North End [00:03:00] has a long history of being a landing place for immigrant populations, New Bostonians. Around that time, it would be Eastern European Jews, Italians, Irish and then I have this cool sign over here from the 30s that gives you a window.
of what they were offering at the time. So there were things for adults children, men, women there were language classes social things, painting English for Italians Italian for English speakers. As I can observe the evolution of North Bennett Street School. There’s this a growth of wanting to educate people, give them skills and then essentially to introduce children to skill building and I think character building.
One of the fundamentals of North Bennet Street School is Sloyd methodology. Around late 1880s, Pauline Agassi Shaw invites a few [00:04:00] people to come here. One of them is Gustav Larson and another is Otto Solomon. They’re both practitioners of Sloyd woodworking with children which again is skill building and then character building, I think the character building part is when you’re working on tangible objects, learning from your mistakes, those things are right in front of you.
It’s like common sense. While I wouldn’t say that everything here that’s happening is Sloyd in its original form, I think that Sloyd really has impacted the way that the skill is taught here.
Jonathan Hughes: Now, I wanted to know just what type of student thrives at North Bennet Street School.
Rob O’Dwyer: The kind of person that we see coming here is really about qualities and interests.
I think the kind of top level things are who likes to make things with their hands. Who likes to fix things? I think at face value, it’s [00:05:00] difficult to not include the brain part of it, right? Like problem solving. One of our earliest mottos is like hand and mind lead to life. So the kinds of people that are usually attracted to this kind of work are they like working with their hands, they like solving problems.
I think the attraction to this work transcends demographics. All demographics. People that want to be service related and make things. At the same time, it is also true that individuals, cultures, groups, communities also have several barriers. Some of those are obvious, and some of those may not be obvious. What we’ve decided to do here is to just be nice to everyone. Treat everybody with dignity and try and be an active listener. Understand what’s going on with people.
Jonathan Hughes: Rob we went on to [00:06:00] tell us some of the barriers that he sees students contending with, and what the school is doing to help them overcome those barriers.
Rob O’Dwyer: An obvious one is financial, right? I think that this is a large challenge. It’s one that’s pretty well known. There’s the whole like college debt crisis which a lot of people are trying to avoid. The way the institution has decided to wisely address this is to fundraise for scholarship. So last year, this year, we’ve reached a little over a million dollars in institutional scholarship that is awarded mostly need based. And I’d say probably three quarters of our students are getting some kind of institutional aid. We’re also accredited so people can apply for FAFSA and it would be a combination of things like FAFSA.
North Bend Street School institutional scholarship. People can use things like [00:07:00] AmeriCorps Veterans Benefits any number of third party funding. So that’s one section. The other thing is I would say with things like, race and gender. The, those access points differ a lot for people of who is doing what.
There’s often a thing where know for myself I usually don’t walk into an empty restaurant. Like I feel if there’s, if it’s empty, it’s telling me, I don’t know, nobody else wants to go here. Something must be wrong. And I think as people in general, we like to see people that we can relate to whether it’s visual or any other thing.
And then that gives us this sense of courage or confidence to begin going in this way. I want to share one of the tactical things that we did back in 2013. We had noticed for years that we had a lot of people here that identified as queer, and [00:08:00] we are banging our heads, how can we celebrate this?
How can we do this in a classy, realistic way where, you know, more people in the community know about us and come? This is the same for everybody. We’re, we just want people to come here that make and fix things, right? But each group, you have to figure out what are these ways that you can let them know, Hey, this is a cool place.
We’re welcoming, we’re inclusive. So for us we had a student who identified as non binary, but then we realized on our application that we didn’t have a choice there. And so we made the decision in 2013 to add the a choice for non binary people. And it’s great because anyone who looks at the application sees this and then they’re going to most likely they’re going to say, Oh, this place is a place that welcomes non binary people.
And then they’re going to know that, when they come here, this is what this [00:09:00] welcoming and inclusive culture is.
Jonathan Hughes: And there are other invisible barriers as well.
Rob O’Dwyer: I think a lot of times what’s interesting about here is people need to access their own courage in order to make a calculated risk to do something that it probably in many situations, if you’re like, Hey, I want to be a violin maker.
Hey, I want to be a book binder. Unless you’re from, a family that’s probably like the Royal Tenenbaums. You will likely have to explain what this is to most of your friends and family and then justify the, dedicating your life and investing in this kind of career pathway. We talk about this often here.
It, we’re really just we’re just holding up a mirror to someone and seeing if the timing is right and someone has the real potential to do this. We don’t want to extinguish [00:10:00] someone’s attraction to this kind of work. So for that reason we counsel people. We don’t send too many denials.
Jonathan Hughes: How do people make the decision to come to North Bennet Street School?
Rob O’Dwyer: I think that many of the things that we train. Not obvious. They’re micro industries. And so they don’t get front page news. They’re not always at the the tip of the tongue for a guidance counselor to say, Oh, I think you should be a piano technician. Those things do happen and we’re very happy when that happens.
But I think most of the things here people need to discover on their own and then through that Find, they will often find oh my next step would be to go to North Bennet Street School We do get young people. They’re just a smaller percentage it’s a rare kind of young person Who might begin coming to our open houses when they’re 14, 15 You [00:11:00] may already be a woodworker or working with metal or any of the materials that we have here, who then builds and then decides, okay, the timing is right.
I have the focus and the maturity to make this kind of commitment. Those people are absolutely here.
Jonathan Hughes: How do most people hear about the school?
Rob O’Dwyer: I think the two main things are like word of mouth and probably internet search now and our marketing team they are building visibility I’d say, especially on the internet, allowing more people to find us.
It might locksmiths or piano technicians, where people might go to their piano tuner and say, Oh, could I be an apprentice? And what often happens is, it’s not as easy to do that. So the person might say, Hey, look, I don’t have the time or the [00:12:00] energy to be able to train you. But if you go to North Bennett street school give me a call before you graduate.
And, maybe. I could, we could work together or maybe I could help you find something.
Jonathan Hughes: Rob and I talked ahead of our interview and in that discussion he mentioned thinking about just what it was that drew people to pursue trades at NBSS and especially often people who are changing careers later in life. And he mentioned the desire to be useful as a motivator. So I asked him about that.
Rob O’Dwyer: I think that we all as people want to be and feel useful. From my observation, there’s a lot of jobs that people have where whatever the mindset is in high school, going to college, how you’re going to measure success in your terms what kind of salary you’re going to get I think this kind of cuts back to why there’s so many.
adults [00:13:00] here that are over 20 something. I think that people discover that they may not be satisfied. And even the people that might be making excellent salaries, there’s just something missing something. And I think it’s connected to this concept of usefulness. Everything that is done here is useful for someone else.
And I think that as people, we. naturally, I hope, want to help each other. And so in making the chairs that you’re both sitting in a table that you might sit at a house that you might live in, these things are all very directly useful to other people. There are other things that I think lend themselves to more aesthetics.
The sound of music, piano technology, making a violin, which is also woodworking, but also creating sound ultimately that helps to lift [00:14:00] people’s spirits and remind people how beautiful the world is. Jewelry making it may not be one of the three needs, but at this level, when you get into a room and you see someone wearing something beautiful and you’re.
you want to compliment them. I think it elevates the atmosphere. And so can be defined as useful. I think people like to be a part of that.
Jonathan Hughes: Now, I know how college admissions works, GPAs, SAT scores, extracurriculars, all that, but I had no idea what the process was for getting into North Bennett Street School.
Rob O’Dwyer: The admissions process is set up to help reveal what a candidate’s strengths are. And I think that just like an interview is, let’s learn about this person. Let’s learn about what their strengths are and what their opportunity areas are.
Jonathan Hughes: Do people always know what trade they’re pursuing or do they make up their minds after being admitted? How does that work?
Rob O’Dwyer: [00:15:00] It works best for us when people have already decided for themselves. They’ve done the research. They’re committed. If we’re not going to let them in, they’re going to find some other place that they’re going to get the training.
Jonathan Hughes: And what is North Bennet Street looking for on an application or resume from prospective students?
Rob O’Dwyer: Our accreditors require us to work with people and bring people on board that we believe will be successful in the program. And I think that’s just good common sense. It’s the right thing to do. And then there’s a piece of that, which is Our job in many ways is to understand does someone’s aspiration match their ability or potential.
And so we have things that we use to do that. We have skill tests. We ask for a resume cause we’re a career school. We love to see transferable skills direct skills, anything [00:16:00] that requires project management hand skills or manual labor. And customer service a combination of those things in just about any medium from software development to farming Are all cool with us
Jonathan Hughes: and then finally with such a focus on career training How does taking a course at NBSS become a career especially in such specialized fields? How do you find a job as a violin maker or? locksmith or a bookbinder
Rob O’Dwyer: At North Bennett Street School the easiest way for me to describe career services is there’s two tiers. Every one of the faculty members is still active in their industry, whether they’re working in that industry or whether they’re, stewarding their network of people within the industry.
And because of our size the classes are relatively small, Over the nine months that you’re here or [00:17:00] 10 months in violin for an academic year, the faculty are going to get to know you as a person. What is your skillset? What are your interests and how do those things evolve? And they will be fielding job opportunities directly during the year afterwards.
And, something might happen where, you might only be interested in, repairing window sash. And out of everything there is in preservation carpentry, you’re like, that’s the thing that I like. I don’t want to do anything else. And then it turns out there are businesses that only do that.
And so they may be, they may want to hire someone and then you’ll get that connection. So first year is going to be faculty. Second tier is student success and career services. That position supports all of the programs and they’ll do more general support like an opt in six week business class that’s offered once a [00:18:00] year.
They meet with students individually to work on if people need help with interviews or updating their resume and then they also manage through our website. People can. post jobs and commissions that students and alumni have access to. And then this is all, you as a graduate, you have access to career services for life.
And you have access to those jobs and commissions that get listed for life.
Jonathan Hughes: And like always, we want to finish up with some advice. So I asked Rob to think about Someone who’s hearing this and having their interest peaked, maybe a student just nearing the end of high school, who isn’t sure that they’re quite feeling the four year college experience, or maybe they’re a professional who’s considering a career change.
So what advice would Rob have for someone who’s listening to this and interested in what they’ve heard?
Rob O’Dwyer: I say, go for it. Start by doing [00:19:00] research as much as possible about what the industry is like. What graduates are doing, where they’re working, what are they saying? I think that to know yourself is hugely important.
I think that people should understand where they are for timing. I think that people should know their selves in a way where they understand what is your threshold of sacrifice. What is your threshold of investment? What are the things that you’re willing to do to achieve the goals that you want to?
And then, once you can identify those things, you can start to build a tapestry or a support system to make those things happen. I think that’s hugely important. For anyone who wants to come to North Benet Street School I think it would be important to understand that the commitment here is pretty much total.
When you’re here [00:20:00] training during the day, 30 to 40 hours a day you want to be in a place where you can focus on that work where you’ve got enough rest and where you can connect to your goals so that it motivates you. through whatever points may be challenging. I think those are the things.
Call someone who’s doing something. Call someone who is a locksmith. Visit, walk into a locksmith shop and say, hey, I’m thinking about doing this. Can you tell me about your journey? I will suggest this to every candidate that I come across. And one of the things that I like about it, is that it can help justify what your direction might be, but it also might be a way for you to begin professional networking.
There’s a lot of times I hear where someone says, that sounds great. Call me. There’s a person in their seventies who was living in Canada and they came here to learn piano technology. And [00:21:00] while they were here, they started a blog. I asked this person, what are you going to do when you graduate?
And they said, when I get back to Canada, there’s one person in my region who has the best reputation as a pianotech. I’m either going to work for them or against them. Bold. But I asked. And when I followed up, I said, hey, I’m a pianotech. with that. And they said, this person found my blog and contacted me because I had written where I lived and they said, look, when you come home for break, let’s have a cup of coffee and talk about it.
And so they like went into a partnership. So you just never know. You got to put it out into the universe. You’ve got to, you’ve got to take that calculated risk.
Jonathan Hughes: Alright folks, that was our [00:22:00] show. I want to thank Rob O’Dwyer for sharing his time with us and his expertise, and I want to thank him and North Bennett Street for hosting us to record. Now folks, if you enjoyed the show today and you want to hear more from us about planning, saving, and paying for college and career readiness, then you can follow the show, and you can do that wherever you find your podcasts. And if the mood should strike you, please remember to review us. It just helps us to keep doing what we’re doing and getting the show out to folks like you. I’d like to thank our producer, Shaun Connolly. I’d like to thank AJ Yee, Lisa Rooney, Lauren Danz, and Meredith Clement for their assistance in getting the show posted so that you can listen to it.
Once again, my name is Jonathan Hughes, and this has been the MEFA [00:23:00] Podcast.