Jonathan Hughes: [00:00:00] Welcome everyone to the MEFA Podcast. My name is Jonathan Hughes.

Julie Shields-Rutyna: And I’m Julie Shields-Rutyna.

Jonathan Hughes: Hey, Julie. How’s it going?

Julie Shields-Rutyna: Hi, Jon. It’s great.

Jonathan Hughes: On our show today, our guest is Brendan Melican. Now, you might have heard on this show, or anywhere else, about Mass ReConnect. And that’s the new free community college program for adults without a degree in Massachusetts.

And Brendan is actually using that program. He’s got to be one of the first, I think, to be using it because it’s only a couple of months old and we had him lined up right away. He’s going back to school to study nursing while his son is a college student. We talked a few weeks ago. He’s great. It was actually one of my absolute favorite guests we’ve ever had on the show. So please listen to that. But first, Julie. We got big news this week, didn’t we?

Julie Shields-Rutyna: We did. We did. We, we’ve all been waiting to find out when the FAFSA, the Free Application for [00:01:00] Federal Student Aid, so the form that students use to apply for financial aid when it’s going to be available this year because it has been delayed. And so we just heard that it will be available on December 31st. And so it’s good to just to know that.

Jonathan Hughes: Does that so people can file their FAFSA now on December 31st. Right? What else is there to be known about that, though?

Julie Shields-Rutyna: Yeah, so I they don’t have to file it December 31st. Enjoy your New Year’s Eve.

Jonathan Hughes: What could be more enjoyable? What a better way to celebrate New Year’s Eve and to file your FAFSA.

Julie Shields-Rutyna: So I would say but it’s it is a good time in a way to just know that I think it’s a good idea for students parents to get that form completed in early January. So put that in your mind of one of the first my New Year’s resolution is going to be get the FAFSA done because it’s a little bit delayed this year. I think you just want to get on that immediately. [00:02:00] And have it sent to the colleges so that the colleges have time to create a financial aid offer for you. And that is going to be delayed this year. I mean, it’s just, there’s no way around it, but it’s the case for all students. And so the earlier you get your form completed, then the earlier those, the colleges can start working on that and potentially the earlier they will able be able to send you a financial aid offer.

Jonathan Hughes: So what should they do now? What should your families you know, like there is something that that we’ve talked about that they can do now in anticipation for this?

Julie Shields-Rutyna: Yeah, so prior to completing the FAFSA, students and any parent whose information is going to be on the form, which we’re calling anyone like that a contributor. Needs to have an FSA ID and so they can go in right now and create an FSA ID and what that is, it’s a username and password.

So the student always needs one [00:03:00] and usually anyone else whose information is on the form is going to need one as well. With one big exception, if the student’s parents are married or living together and file a joint tax return. So probably married filing jointly is the situation where only one parent in that case would need an FSA ID.

So they can do that now. And what that means is on January 1st. When they wake up, they are ready to go in and complete the FAFSA and they can log in using their FSA IDs.

Jonathan Hughes: Okay, so let’s talk about the other end of this that you mentioned a little bit in the answer to the first question here and that is when the schools are going to get this information. Can you tell families what they can expect from that end? And then also, what have you heard from colleges?

Julie Shields-Rutyna: Yes, well, it turns out, it seems that, that [00:04:00] the Information that’s sent to the colleges is also a little bit delayed. So probably the colleges will receive that information at the end of January, even more reason to just make sure that students and families complete the FAFSA so that then they can be in that first batch, so to speak of, information that gets sent to colleges. So, you know, the talk really is just about the fact that everything is delayed. And that makes everyone a little bit nervous because of course families, students are applying to college and they hope to receive acceptances, but they need to know. What the financial aid offers will be, and colleges want to get those financial aid offers to families, and so they know that everything is just going to be a little bit of a time crunch because of these delays.

But I think that everyone is in the same boat, and the important [00:05:00] piece to know is that a college is not going to expect you. To commit to go there until you have a financial aid offer, so there’s no nervous, you know, nothing you have to worry about there. So the key is to just make sure that you apply for financial aid as soon as the FAFSA is available.

And then you’ll be in the best possible position so that the colleges will receive your information as soon as they can. And they will be able to begin creating a financial aid offer for you. I guess if we take this out a little bit, usually the decision deadline is May 1st, and so you hope to have everything before then so you can make a decision but again, if you get on this right away, in all likelihood, you will be able to know everything and be able to make a decision by May 1st.

Jonathan Hughes: If families do have questions, right? Any resources that we can offer, whether it’s from MEFA or through other organizations, do we want to [00:06:00] throw some of those out there right now?

Julie Shields-Rutyna: Yeah, I think so. Well, we have some recorded webinars on creating your FSA ID, and they’re short. So, take a look at that, those on the MEFA website.

I don’t know if we can link one of those to this podcast, or Jon, I think you’ve done a short video on that as well, so that’s, you could do that and get that done right now. And we also have a webinar on the FAFSA. That’s going to be a walkthrough of the whole form. And that will be happening in early December.

If you go to mefa.org/events, you can find that and register. And that will just give you a jumpstart of knowing what you’re going to see when you see the new FAFSA, and we will have more information about that as we go along, but also we will actually beginning in January have some events that we call FAFSA Festivals where you can actually join a meeting with breakout [00:07:00] rooms and we have experts who can help you complete the FAFSA.

You can start it yourself, but if you have any issues or a question, you can know that you can join one of those events and have those questions answered and really right over Zoom be able to complete the FAFSA and submit it with an expert.

Jonathan Hughes: All right. Well, thank you so much. And in that spirit, it’s time to go to the MEFA Mailbag. So these are questions that have come into us over the past few weeks and have been answered by our college planning team, which can also help you with these FAFSA questions or any questions you may have. So if you have any questions, you can email us at [email protected] and you can call us at 1-800-449-MEFA and you can also reach us over on social media. So Facebook, that’s @MEFAMa. On X, that’s at @MEFATweets. And on Instagram, that’s @MEFA_MA. So this question I love, it came to us last week and it comes to us from a counselor who is helping a student. The student does not have [00:08:00] parents and lives with his grandmother, the legal guardian. She’s older and lives on a Roth IRA and has a house that is paid off. So trying to best advise the student or guardian receiving the highest financial aid offer next fall and assuming the grandmother’s Roth IRA and house will negatively impact it, in the grandmother’s words there was a recommendation to put all of her assets into a trust. Julie, there’s a few things that jump out at me here, so what do we have to say about this question?

Julie Shields-Rutyna: Yes, well, the most important thing to say up front and first is this student who doesn’t have parents and just lives with the legal guardian does not- can file the FAFSA as an independent student and does not need to put the grandmother’s information on the form, period. So that is great news. We get questions like this a lot.

And that’s a lot. It’s kind of scary for a grandparent sometime to think about having to take that on worried about their own future and the [00:09:00] child’s. But, but this student can file the FAFSA as an independent student.

Jonathan Hughes: And, and why is that better for students a lot of the times?

Julie Shields-Rutyna: Well, just because it will only be the student’s income and assets that are taken into consideration. But then I’ll just say something additional that really isn’t even necessary in this situation because that’s the bottom line, period, end of sentence. So that’s good for this student, can file the FAFSA as an independent student. But what I will also just add in, because it seems like there are a lot of misconceptions out there in general, and a couple of them are reflected in this.

Question is that on the FAFSA, a parent, if it were a parent, a parent’s place of residence, the home that they live in is not included as an asset on the FAFSA. So that’s just good to know. And also retirement accounts, such as a Roth IRA are not included on the FAFSA either. So even in other situations where it’s students filing with their parents, [00:10:00] I think it’s good to mention that those two specific assets are not included on the FAFSA.

And so I, I like to get that information out there because I hate to see people making huge financial decisions like the one that was thought about here of putting assets in a trust and all of those things. I mean, families can do all kinds of things, but I just wouldn’t want them to be doing something thinking they were doing the right thing by financial aid when those two assets were not going to be counted at all.

Jonathan Hughes: Well, I love that. That’s what we’re here for, and it’s all good news for, for this student, for this grandmother. So, one more time, if you have any questions, you can email us at [email protected]. You can call us at 1-800-449-MEFA. Once again, our Facebook is @MEFAMA, on X at @MEFATweets, and Instagram @MEFA_MA.

And a reminder, we have a bench of college guidance experts that are waiting to answer your questions. So now, let’s go to my conversation with Brendan Melican.

You know, a few weeks ago we had as guests on the [00:11:00] show Nate McKinnon from the Massachusetts Community College Association and Mount Wachusett Community College President Jim Vander Hooven to talk about the launch of the new Mass ReConnect program, which grants free community college to adults over 25.

That was a September show that we did, and you can and should go back and check that out if you hadn’t heard it yet. But near the end of that interview, I said, oh, maybe you’ll come back later on and tell me. Well, it turns out we don’t have to wait very long to do that. Instead of talking with college presidents and executive directors, we’re going to talk to an actual student who’s going through the process and using Mass ReConnect. He’s here to tell us all about it. His name is Brendan Melican. Brendan, welcome, and thank you for being on the show.

Brendan Melican: Oh, thank you, Jonathan, for giving me the opportunity to come on.

Jonathan Hughes: Why don’t you tell me and everybody listening just a little bit about yourself and your family and, and what, how you got here?

Brendan Melican: Sure. So I’m [00:12:00] 47 years old, live out in Worcester. I’ve got one son who is actually a freshman in college himself. So we’re kind of we’re navigating these waters together. And then obviously my wife as well. It’s I’m a lifelong resident of Worcester. I grew up in Worcester, I was raised in a family of educators is going to sound silly, but I probably it took me a long time to realize this myself, but I probably squandered more educational opportunities than most people are offered.

As a young person I definitely dabbled with higher ed after high school did some semesters at Worcester State. Now, Worcester State University, but it was college at the time also took some classes at at Quinsig but between a mix of of seeking employment probably undiagnosed ADHD and just, you know, general boredom. I never finished. I would usually start a semester loaded with classes that I found interesting, and this is the one. And then it was usually by the drop a point of most semesters. That’s when I would walk away. And then when this. Opportunity came up, you know, I’ll be honest. I started following the conversation when Governor Healy first brought it up as [00:13:00] part of her campaign.

I really wasn’t paying attention to what was working its way through the House and the Senate. The intersection, though, with my son getting ready to go to college and a few things that happened over the last decade where I had spent a lot of time in and out of health care facilities with loved ones.

Way in my past, I worked as an EMT and also worked for the New England Organ Bank, always found myself really comfortable in that universe and figured, you know, if I’m going to convince my son to go to college, you know, bad parenting, not to be willing to do the same thing that making her kid do.

So I took the opportunity to register at Quinsig for their pre-nursing program, which ultimately is what I’m shooting for is their nursing program. And then the timing, just the stars aligned perfectly where this program came through. Not that community college was the largest burden in terms of finances, but it really took the edge off knowing that the state was both backing me and encouraging me as an older non-traditional learner to be going back into the classroom. So here we are.

Jonathan Hughes: I’m sure that’s a very common story [00:14:00] for a lot of people. I know I’ve had my wife before on the show as a guest, because as an adult learner, because we actually met in college and you know, she left after her first year and went back for a year to a different college and then, and then dropped out and then went back for a semester and then dropped out and you know, kind of had that desire to go back but something always happened to.

Brendan Melican: No, absolutely. That’s, and I think that is, like you said, very common. And the interesting thing too, and I think the partnership, whether it was for financial reasons, or it was actually thought out fully thought out, the relationship and the focus on community colleges actually makes a lot more sense.

I mean, as I mentioned, I’m shooting to work through Quinsig’s nursing program. But it’s already the 1st semester, and I’m starting to look at 4 year programs to pivot into a B. S. N. instead of the degree as an R. N. And there is something to be said for the environment in the community colleges that and it’s been 30 years since I’ve formally sat in [00:15:00] a classroom.

There’s some catching up to do the comfort level with the professors in working with non-traditional students has been fantastic. And I feel like that’s what’s important about this program is just that it’s taking a lot of the roadblocks out of the way for folks that probably recognize that there would be some value for them going back to the classroom.

But again, there are always roadblocks in the way it’s going to be too hard. There’s too much catching up to do. The community colleges are perfectly primed for that.

Jonathan Hughes: I imagine that’s something that you saw. You’re able to compare from your other experiences being at colleges.

Brendan Melican: Absolutely. And I mean, it’s it this time. It’s more it’s funny to be honest with you. And thankfully, my professors all have a good sense of humor. But I had to expand, explain to my math professor this year that I do understand what we’re doing in the classroom. It’s just that over the last 30 years, mathematics and the way it’s taught has changed completely.

My father was actually a math teacher. When I was a kid, learning mathematics was sitting down with a pack of flash cards that were printed in the 30s. And you just got yelled at. [00:16:00] You remembered everything in the box. Now they actually want to show you how you’re accomplishing everything. So, yeah, there, there is some learning to do, but it’s an environment that it’s probably more similar in some regards to the way high school students should be presented a lot of the material.

And again, it’s, it’s just one more roadblock that was taken out of the way for me that did actually create a lot of anxiety as a, someone who’s approaching 50. You don’t want to walk into a classroom with people who are the, you know, a third year age. Okay. And be the one who’s struggling, and that hasn’t been the experience that I’ve had thus far at all.

Jonathan Hughes: Yeah, can you tell me any more about what your in class experience has been like?

Brendan Melican: It’s, you know, it’s, it’s funny because some of the classes I am ticking off a lot of boxes that are things that I’ve actually done professionally and along the way. So you know what I’m going to say is remedial, you know, Beginning Composition English Class.

There’s a lot of students in there who’ve never really put pen to paper from a research perspective or never done any creative writing. That’s just something that I’ve done for myself for the last, you know, 20 plus years. So it’s put me in an odd [00:17:00] position where I actually have something to offer the students aside from what the the professor is getting through to the students.

And I keep finding myself in this interesting position where I’ve got a very young people after class, pulling me aside, asking everything from questions about what’s going on in class to general life questions. Which is actually really a rewarding feeling to be honest with you. It’s I was expecting my life to look a lot like an episode of Community and instead it’s actually been a really rewarding experience overall. I don’t feel like an outcast being on this campus in the slightest.

Jonathan Hughes: And so how long do you have to go until you finish your program at the Community College?

Brendan Melican: So it’s interesting, and it’s again, where this program came into play in a really nice way. Quinsig Community College has a waiting list for their nursing program, and that waiting list is about 2 years.

So what they did a few years back was create a degree program that they title a pre nursing program that you’re not actually expected to finish as a degree. It’s really just a holding area that then allows you to [00:18:00] take advantage of any FASFA opportunities, any grant opportunities because you’re in a degree based program.

And really, what you’re doing is a combination of waiting for a slot to open up in the nursing program, but also taking off the prerequisites for that program as well, too. So the TEAS test is the big one. The entrance exam for nursing, but then any prerequisites that you may not have taken, even if you were a traditional student and you came out of high school and you didn’t have the necessary biology or chemistry classes that will be required to enter into the program.

It gives you some time to take those off anywhere from 3 to 4 years is is the average from the beginning of that pre nursing program to the end of the nursing program and the community colleges as a whole. But I couldn’t say in particular has a really nice structure in which they’ll identify for you.

The point is that, you know, you’ve made it this far. This is exactly when you might want to think about pivoting to a four year program to shoot for a B. S. N. versus just sticking with the, the R. N. degree program in this case. And that seems to be the case across the board. I know Quinsig Community College has a big [00:19:00] STEM program at this point structured the very similar way.

You can certainly walk away with certificates or a two year degree, but if you’re really paying attention to what the advisors are putting in front of you, they’re also identifying the times that you should be thinking about transferring out to a four year school. If a bachelor’s is what you’re shooting for.

Jonathan Hughes: And if I can go back and ask you about when you made your decision to actually use Mass ReConnect or to go back to school. You said you were sort of following it as it was going through. So was that sort of instrumental in your decision to seek this sort of degree program or was it not?

Brendan Melican: No, I had, I had committed myself to actually pulling the trigger this year to start school. And again, I had lost sight of what was happening on a state level in terms of the funding model and how it was going to work. It was actually somewhat up at the school. In the, as I was working through some of the admissions process as the semester started one of the advisors up there suggested that I run through the FAFSA [00:20:00] program just because.

You know, I’ve got a son in school. Just the more the merrier is kind of the way it’s, it’s structured. And that was actually the 1st time I realized that the state funding model had already begun and it was backed into the fast foot program. So it’s really just 1 extra step in an otherwise seamless process of making sure I was taking advantage of anything that I might be available eligible for from a scholarship or a from the fastest side of things.

And then the state just reared its head and took care of the rest, which again. It was really nice and, you know, making light, but it’s it was a big deal. Community college is not the most expensive thing in the world, but it’s still a cost. And it was nice to see the state sliding in to take that off the table for me.

Jonathan Hughes: And, and there wasn’t anything that special that you had to do to qualify for it.

Brendan Melican: Just file your FAFSA. Yeah, it was it. And I mean, if for anyone who hasn’t is thinking about this program and hasn’t gone through FAFSA. FAFSA is one of those things that does seem like a nightmare [00:21:00] nightmare if you’re not used to it.

Or it’s just another big federal program. It’s actually very streamlined. It’s if your taxes are in order. The core requirements that they have, they really pull in all the data they need from partner organizations on the federal level. And then where the state comes in that was seamless. It was just another tick box.

Do you want to be, you know, moved into this pipeline as well? I really had to do nothing from the perspective of going through the FASFA pipeline. What the state had to offer was just there for me.

Jonathan Hughes: And I want to talk about your other student in the house, is it your son? You said it is.

Brendan Melican: Yeah, so he’s a freshman at Texas A&M. He’s in their Core Cadets shooting for an Air Force contract. You look into commission as a officer in the air force and, you know, it’s he and I have a, I guess, an interesting relationship that I, I do like as a father pushing him a bit out of his comfort zone, if you will but I, I’ve never felt fair about pushing him without also pushing myself.

And this [00:22:00] was an easy one and it’s kind of the running joke in the house, now is, we both will needle his mother, my wife as to whose graduation she’s going to carve out time to hit, because we’re likely to be graduating the same, generally the same time. Obviously we’ll both be down there to see him, but it’s it’s, it’s kind of funny because we are working through very new environments and a very new process to both of us at the same time.

Oddly enough, though, all the things that I’m struggling with, he did in high school. So he’s actually able to help me out quite a bit, which I was going to ask you if he’s able to help you. Yeah, 100%. A best tutor I ever could have asked for. No, I’m serious. And it sounds silly, but it’s been fantastic.

And look, I mean, the reality is. He will always be my son, but he’s an adult now. So it’s great to have somebody that at this point is essentially a peer from an education perspective. And I’ve always told him, you don’t know what you don’t know. That goes for me too. And if I can find someone that close that can help me out, it’s fantastic.

We’re a little far away and there’s a time zone change. So I do have to be respectful of his time when it comes [00:23:00] to asking for help, but he’s always been there for me when I’ve needed it. So it’s been great. That’s great.

Jonathan Hughes: And he’s, you know, supportive of you and your supportive of him so-

Brendan Melican: He thinks it’s… I do change things up quite a bit in my life. I tend to get bored easy. Again, I mentioned earlier, half-jokingly, the undiagnosed ADHD. And I’ve gone through a bunch of different career paths. All of them have been wildly successful, but I tend to pivot every now and then. He grew up with that, so he’s used to it. This one he just finds wildly entertaining. And it’s also been a bit of a running joke. He’ll get a Snapchat from friends that he has that are on campus. Hey, I saw your dad today. Which at least he knows I’m going to, I’m not cutting class. So that’s worked out well.

Jonathan Hughes: You’ve been able to sort of. Incorporate everything as a student into your life in general with other things.

Brendan Melican: You know, I don’t want to sound like I’m just doing marketing for Quinsigamond Community College here, but I think that is one of the things that the community colleges as a whole have done fantastic is they’ve always had their doors open to nontraditional students. And if you, [00:24:00] whatever class you need, chances are good.

It’s taking place first thing in the morning, midday at night, multiple days a week. They really do structure their environment for folks who are working who have other commitments. It may not just be able to get up at 7 o’clock in the morning for school. I’m fortunate that between professional life and my personal needs, I am able to be up there in the morning during normal school hours, but between remote classes off campus classes, satellite campuses, and a very well fleshed out schedule.

I’ve run into no hurdles in terms of scheduling between professional life, personal life, and my new title as student.

Jonathan Hughes: Yeah, it’s funny. I, to hear you talk about it. It strikes me that we’ve had a few guests on this show before. Who were community college students who just gushed about their community colleges. Sure. It just strikes me that that is a sentiment that we hear a lot.

Brendan Melican: Yeah. And it’s an interesting mix. I feel like you have a lot of a mix of newer professors who are getting their legs under them, but [00:25:00] they’re very excited about being in a classroom, a higher ed environment. As well as a lot of professors who have, you know, been in four-year schools taught across the country and whatnot and landed in New England, Massachusetts for whatever reason.

And this is their sort of retirement job, if you will. But they’re seasoned as, as educators, the resources up there again, don’t want to sound like a, like a marketing for the school here. But it has been fantastic. And I did. I did attend Quinsig for half a semester back in the nineties. It wasn’t the same school. The resources that the state has put in has beenfantastic.

Jonathan Hughes: Do you know of anybody else who’s using this program?

Brendan Melican: I don’t, you know, I’ve seen a few people on campus that age wise, it’s very possible. There’s a few that have been meaning to try and track down and make sure they know the program exists.

But there are a few people up there that I know they’re coming in taking advantage of GI Bill offerings and whatnot. I mean, there, there are a fair number of older students that are up there. And I’m by no means the oldest but [00:26:00] I, I haven’t really got a sense of how many people at the school overall are taking advantage of this particular program.

Jonathan Hughes: If there was somebody who was thinking about doing it, or possibly, what would you say to that person?

Brendan Melican: No, yeah, that’s, yeah, I think that’s an easy one. Just do it. And the reality is, even if you don’t, even if you weren’t thinking you need to go back to school, and so I, in a past life, I, I owned a small business.

Even if I was still in, in wearing that hat I still think I would have taken advantage of this, but it probably wouldn’t have been for a nursing program. It probably would have been a degree in accounting or some other business management. There are just so many small pockets of degree fields and certificate programs within the community college system, but I think would fit the needs of almost anybody.

And there are a lot of us out there who, for whatever reason, didn’t choose the 4 year route. When we should have and yet there’s, there’s no reason not to at this point. It’s easy to come up with excuses. And I did that for years. I probably should have done this years ago. But it didn’t.

[00:27:00] And here we are. And I think that’s the same for everybody. Just because you, you didn’t do it in the past doesn’t mean you can’t make time in the future. And the resources have never been this good, so not taking advantage of it, especially when you fold it into the program. The state is offering now taking care of the tuition side of things. It actually kind of starts seeming silly not to to jump in.

Jonathan Hughes: Any advice for any students who are taking advantage of the program and being a little bit older.

Brendan Melican: Just pace yourself. I mean, you know what you’re capable of. Don’t try and overextend yourself. The scheduling thing in particular is kind of hard.

It’s again, I’ve spent a fair amount of time creating my own schedule, being a small business owner. And even in my current work being able to be in charge of your own schedule and then having somebody else dictate your time for you is a big switch to go back to. And I think pacing yourself is the important thing and there’s no harm.

And certainly nobody’s going to hold it against you starting from a more remedial perspective from the foundations, it’s some of those classes I’m taking because I have [00:28:00] to, because they don’t show up on my transcripts anywhere. Some of them I’m taking because I want to, because there are certain things about again, basic arithmetic that, you know, it was taught differently.

It’s a new way to learn it. And. It’s actually fantastic. Part of me wishes I had done this earlier because it was a struggle. Both my wife had and helping our son, who is now tutoring me in math when he was in high school because we weren’t familiar with the mathematics that he was being taught again.

We were just taught to memorize stuff. The whole concept of factoring that didn’t exist in the in the 80s. So it’s it’s nice actually having that perspective. Yeah. The other thing, too, is if you are jumping in actually appreciate it and appreciate what’s going on around you. It’s I was actually not prepared for.

We all hear conversation around young people and distractions, social media, whatever the case may be. I was actually surprised how easily distracted my own brain is and what used to be the ability to just sit down and pay attention to the classroom. Now it’s every little thing that bubbles up is. [00:29:00] Pulling me away from that learning that I’ve also retrained my brain to think differently than it did when I was a student through high school. And I can empathize a little bit more with young folks who are actually trying to accomplish something in higher ed. And I can also empathize with the educators who are trying to convey information and can’t figure out why everyone’s so distracted and no one’s paying attention to me.

So yeah, I think going in with a strong sense of empathy and pacing yourself would be the two things that I would focus on if I were returning, which I am. So those are the things that I’m working on.

Jonathan Hughes: I just have to say that I agree with you about the math. My son is a in fifth grade right now and doing math with him. They didn’t do it the way, you know, we didn’t do it the way they do it now. And I was always terrible at math.

Brendan Melican: And I kind of like doing it this way. It’s kind of fun. I do too. I actually have a great friend who is a math teacher and always told me, because I hated math, I struggled with it all the way through high school.

And my friend told me [00:30:00] after he got his Master’s, he’s like, you know, the problem was he didn’t stick with it till math got interesting. There’s a point, apparently, I haven’t found it yet, where math starts going from just being the rote memorization of the factoring to more philosophy and whatnot. And that is I missed out on that.

The way it’s being presented to me now? If this is the way that math was presented to me starting in elementary school, I would have probably stuck with it and we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation right now. I would have found something that I fell in love with and ran with it. So yeah, it’s again, it’s nice being exposed to things that as an adult, you like to think I got this. This is behind me now. And realizing that there’s still more to learn.

Jonathan Hughes: Well, will you come back after you’re done and talk to us about it?

Brendan Melican: I’ll come back any time you want, man. This was a pleasure.

Jonathan Hughes: Pleasure for me, too. Thank you so much, Brendan.

Brendan Melican: No, thank you, Jonathan. I appreciate the time.

Jonathan Hughes: Well, a huge thank you to Brendan Melican for [00:31:00] being on the show. I hope we get to hear from him again. Remember, everyone, if you liked what you heard today, and you want to know more about planning, saving, and paying for college and career readiness, well, then you can follow the show wherever you get your podcast. And please remember to review us. It does just help us to keep doing what we’re doing here and getting the show out to folks like you. So Julie, have a wonderful Thanksgiving and thank you for being here.

Julie Shields-Rutyna: Oh, thank you, John. And you too, and everyone else as well.

Jonathan Hughes: And I want to thank Shaun Connolly, our producer and AJ Yee and Lauren Danz for their assistance in posting the show. Once again, my name is Jonathan Hughes, and this has been the MEFA Podcast. Thank you.